1 in 2500 counts of unprotected oral sex leads to hiv

[peanut123]

Jeez people, you can also get hit by a car when you are crossing the street. Does that mean you stop crossing streets? Everything has a risk. Nothing, not even hiding at home or a hotel-room, is risk free. People get killed indoors through electrocution, falls, or when a fucking plane come through the wall (Air France concorde flight 4590 crashed into a hotel and killed 4 hotel staff members).

If you worry about all these, you might as well kill yourself. The key is to avoid high risk activities. What's high risk differs from person to person, but so long as you, as a cheongster, feel that the risk is acceptable, fine!

Afterall, even protected sex is not risk free. Your condom can break while you are fucking that hot chick, and then your risk will be much much higher than any BBBJ. Does that mean you should stop fucking WLs? No right?

[azure85]

+1

#wellsaid

Originally Posted by peanut123

Jeez people, you can also get hit by a car when you are crossing the street. Does that mean you stop crossing streets? Everything has a risk. Nothing, not even hiding at home or a hotel-room, is risk free. People get killed indoors through electrocution, falls, or when a fucking plane come through the wall (Air France concorde flight 4590 crashed into a hotel and killed 4 hotel staff members).

If you worry about all these, you might as well kill yourself. The key is to avoid high risk activities. What's high risk differs from person to person, but so long as you, as a cheongster, feel that the risk is acceptable, fine!

Afterall, even protected sex is not risk free. Your condom can break while you are fucking that hot chick, and then your risk will be much much higher than any BBBJ. Does that mean you should stop fucking WLs? No right?

[simsim87]

Originally Posted by peanut123

Jeez people, you can also get hit by a car when you are crossing the street. Does that mean you stop crossing streets? Everything has a risk. Nothing, not even hiding at home or a hotel-room, is risk free. People get killed indoors through electrocution, falls, or when a fucking plane come through the wall (Air France concorde flight 4590 crashed into a hotel and killed 4 hotel staff members).

If you worry about all these, you might as well kill yourself. The key is to avoid high risk activities. What's high risk differs from person to person, but so long as you, as a cheongster, feel that the risk is acceptable, fine!

Afterall, even protected sex is not risk free. Your condom can break while you are fucking that hot chick, and then your risk will be much much higher than any BBBJ. Does that mean you should stop fucking WLs? No right?

I feel we should mitigate risks to its bare minimum within the best of our means, cd breaking is something beyond what we can do and we are forced to accept that. But doing bj and bbbj is a choice in which the risk can be managed within our means.

Based on your logic, one might continue to do unprotected vaginal intercourse since it is low risk to the cheongster compared to unprotected anal sex.

So do you not fasten your belt when you r driving coz accidents do happen all the time? Do you not wear your helmet when you are riding a motorcycle? Do you also cross the road when the red man is on, since crossing during green man flashing also can kana accident. If your answer is yes to all of these qns, den by all means continue. No worries.

[peanut123]

Condom breakage is beyond your control but it happens. It is not magically safer just simply because it is out of your control, so if you can live with that, you are in no position to criticize others for risking BBBJ infection. If you want to be safe, don't fuck WLs at all, condoms or not.

All experts agree that unprotected vaginal sex is high risk no matter how you look at it. Anal sex is higher risk. Comparing a high risk activity to a higher risk activity does not make the former low risk. It is merely lower risk, not low risk. Don't use stupid examples.

If you are driving on the highway, sure, wear your seatbelt. If you are driving in a carpark at 15km/h, feel free not to wear it.

Lastly, as I said, it's up to individual to decide what is acceptable risk. Practically everyone agrees that BBBJ is low risk for HIV infection, so much so that receiving BBBJ is not considered a medium of transmission by some parties. The risk to the BBBJ giver is higher than for the receiver. If you have evidence to prove otherwise, kindly show us.

From http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/hiv?page=basics-00-08:
There are a few known cases of people getting HIV from giving oral sex (licking or sucking). There are no known cases of someone getting HIV from receiving oral sex (being licked or sucked).

From http://helpline.aidsvancouver.org/wh...v-transmission :
You are right that receiving oral sex is an activity of negligible risk. This means that although HIV transmission is theoretically possible through this activity, there has never been a reported case. There is no possible way that you could have acquired HIV from a trace of semen from an earlier customer in the sex worker's mouth. HIV is a very fragile virus that cannot survive outside the bloodstream of a human host for long. In fact, it can only survive seconds to minutes outside of the human host. Another reassuring fact is that saliva actually contains an enzyme that inhibits HIV. Therefore, there is no way for you to have acquired HIV in this way.

Originally Posted by simsim87

I feel we should mitigate risks to its bare minimum within the best of our means, cd breaking is something beyond what we can do and we are forced to accept that. But doing bj and bbbj is a choice in which the risk can be managed within our means.

Based on your logic, one might continue to do unprotected vaginal intercourse since it is low risk to the cheongster compared to unprotected anal sex.

So do you not fasten your belt when you r driving coz accidents do happen all the time? Do you not wear your helmet when you are riding a motorcycle? Do you also cross the road when the red man is on, since crossing during green man flashing also can kana accident. If your answer is yes to all of these qns, den by all means continue. No worries.

[simsim87]

Originally Posted by peanut123

Condom breakage is beyond your control but it happens. It is not magically safer just simply because it is out of your control, so if you can live with that, you are in no position to criticize others for risking BBBJ infection. If you want to be safe, don't fuck WLs at all, condoms or not.

All experts agree that unprotected vaginal sex is high risk no matter how you look at it. Anal sex is higher risk. Comparing a high risk activity to a higher risk activity does not make the former low risk. It is merely lower risk, not low risk. Don't use stupid examples.

If you are driving on the highway, sure, wear your seatbelt. If you are driving in a carpark at 15km/h, feel free not to wear it.

Lastly, as I said, it's up to individual to decide what is acceptable risk. Practically everyone agrees that BBBJ is low risk for HIV infection, so much so that receiving BBBJ is not considered a medium of transmission by some parties. The risk to the BBBJ giver is higher than for the receiver. If you have evidence to prove otherwise, kindly show us.

From http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/hiv?page=basics-00-08:
There are a few known cases of people getting HIV from giving oral sex (licking or sucking). There are no known cases of someone getting HIV from receiving oral sex (being licked or sucked).

From http://helpline.aidsvancouver.org/wh...v-transmission :
You are right that receiving oral sex is an activity of negligible risk. This means that although HIV transmission is theoretically possible through this activity, there has never been a reported case. There is no possible way that you could have acquired HIV from a trace of semen from an earlier customer in the sex worker's mouth. HIV is a very fragile virus that cannot survive outside the bloodstream of a human host for long. In fact, it can only survive seconds to minutes outside of the human host. Another reassuring fact is that saliva actually contains an enzyme that inhibits HIV. Therefore, there is no way for you to have acquired HIV in this way.

I have never criticised anyone doing bbbj, kindly quote which part of my sentence did i criticise ppl doing bbbj. Im merely advocating safer sex wif cd on for every kind of sexual behaviour, regardless of low or high risk. I have said before if its a risk that one can manage within one's own means, den we should try to do it as much as we can. If u can bear the risk, den no worries, which is what i have alr mentioned above, Yes I agree Tt if we could avoid whores den all the best, if not, den play safe, simple.

its becoming a joke when ppl dishing out advice in a sexual health forum for the goodwill and health of samsters can be seen as someone criticising others and being labelled stupid. I'm beginning to doubt the very objective of this forum - are we here to encourage safer sex or are we here to do the vice versa. Real joke indeed.

[peanut123]

I didn't say you were stupid. I said your EXAMPLES were stupid. So don't jump to the wrong conclusion and get your knickers in a twist over nothing.

Secondly, I agree it is better to be safe and avoid high risk activities. But the discussion here is on HIV (read the title), not other STDs. Since BBBJ is NOT considered significant risk for HIV transmission, we are still not deviating from the safe sex message as far as HIV is concerned. Take into consideration that licenced WLs have a HIV infection rate of only 0.004% (from http://blog.nus.edu.sg/nm3211/2014/07/03/992/. Unlicensed WLs will of course have much higher rate of infection, but I don't have those figures), the risk drops much much lower.

Actually my initial intention was not to encourage BBBJ. It was just to set in context that people take low risks all the time, from crossing the road to taking a flight to going for a swim. All these are activities that can result in instant death, and yet we accept it. There's no reason to raise a ruckus over BBBJ.

Originally Posted by simsim87

I have never criticised anyone doing bbbj, kindly quote which part of my sentence did i criticise ppl doing bbbj. Im merely advocating safer sex wif cd on for every kind of sexual behaviour, regardless of low or high risk. I have said before if its a risk that one can manage within one's own means, den we should try to do it as much as we can. If u can bear the risk, den no worries, which is what i have alr mentioned above, Yes I agree Tt if we could avoid whores den all the best, if not, den play safe, simple.

its becoming a joke when ppl dishing out advice in a sexual health forum for the goodwill and health of samsters can be seen as someone criticising others and being labelled stupid. I'm beginning to doubt the very objective of this forum - are we here to encourage safer sex or are we here to do the vice versa. Real joke indeed.

[desmond_lee]

imo, one has to worry if -

1. the giver has bleeding gum, ulcer, etc. wounds that have blood exposure.


2. the receiver has wounds on his penis too

in summary, there is some kind of blood to blood contact..

if only one is true above at a given time, i think its near impossible lah...

[DoctorTan]

I know this sounds stupid but I have to say it is actually very difficult to prove that HIV can be transmitted in a certain way.

Let me give you an example. For a long time, we did not know for sure if HIV couple be transmitted from female to female (lesbian sex) or not. In 2014, the US CDC reported a case of a woman who was infected with HIV. She did not do drugs or have tattoos. She had 3 female sexual partners in the last 5 years. Her latest female partner is known to be HIV +ve. They tested both of them and found that their HIV strains had 98% similar DNA (in genetic terms they are literally HIV twins). Even in a case seemingly as clear cut as this, researchers and doctors can only say the evidence is compelling and cannot even say outright that it is possible.

In terms of oral sex, there has not been any reports or studies just as compelling. All these numbers that you see people quoting are really just a product of complex statistical and mathematical calculations and modeling. And mostly not even taking into account a whole host of other variables that could affect the risk. Even if there is a risk in the first place.

So really try not to pay too much heed to these numbers. Practically they do not change anything. A risk is a risk. You manage the risk and you get tested regularly to make sure that you are OK. Stressing over these statistics is really not going to help.

[boh88]

interesting.